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19/12/2008, 11:32 AM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 396 Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Are the CEOs making a difference to the traffic congestion in Sidmouth? Although they appear to be kept busy when they patrol the High Street, Fore Street and similar affected thoroughfares - are they having any affect on the attitudes of drivers who illegally park? It looks to me as though for every driver that gets a ticket and drives off vowing not to get caught again, there is another driver ready to take their place and park where they should not. A walk up the High Street in Sidmouth, at any time during the day, will show numerous cars parked on double yellow lines and in Loading Bays - not all of them being fitted with the obligatory Disabled Blue Badge! I personally do not think they are having any affect. They maybe issuing tickets but they are not curing the problem.        Report

20/12/2008, 12:48 PM Local Yocal Joined on 01/04/2008 Devon Posts 148 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? In my opinion - no. There are too many drivers, mostly elderly, that just park where they want in the High Street and seem oblivious to the problems they cause. As long as the enforcement officers are attending Sidmouth on a rota then the problem will persist. They need to blitz the streets for a period of 2 to 3 weeks until the motorists learn their lesson. I've noticed a car park on the pavement - straddling the zig-zag lines of the pedestrian crossing outside the 'Mocha' every morning between 9.00 - 9.30 am. Until that driver is given an endorseable ticket to chew on they will keep on doing it. A problem up and down the country I fear - and it will not be resolved unless the enforcement officers target an area and stick to it until the problem goes away.        Report

16/01/2009, 12:59 PM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 396 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? I spoke to one of the CEOs earlier today - he said that there was not enough of them tasked to Sidmouth at any one time to make a difference - the area covered was too vast. He also said that they would be kept busy even if they remained on one street corner for all of the shift - drivers were not learning lessons. Maybe EDDC (and DCC) should learn theirs - increase the CEO numbers in one area for a fixed time and press home the message by issuing more tickets. This is the only way drivers will take notice - they ignore verbal advice - but don't like tickets - they don't like it up 'em!      Report

01/07/2009, 2:35 AM landcat Joined on 01/07/2009 Posts 16 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Hey Seadog and local yocal! Is your dander up again?" src="/cs/emoticons/emotion-39.gif"> You two should get a flat in mogadishu you could moan away to your hearts content. Yes the town does get busy at times doesnt it, but so what? Its not the end of the world. Things get a little crowded then they unmuddle themselves.  I dont want my taxes spent on  unnecessary rescourses for things that dont matter and out of the 3 of us I think I might be the 1 remaining taxpayer.  Try to think about the good things in life  and try not to get so upset by every little thing.  You need to start thinking of your health. " src="/cs/emoticons/emotion-59.gif">    Report

01/07/2009, 10:51 AM Caring local Joined on 03/06/2009 Posts 8 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Landcat - I agree. things need to be kept in perspective. Out of interest, why are you posting on the forums in the early hours, do you have trouble sleeping. Just me being curious...    Report

01/07/2009, 11:24 AM Local Yocal Joined on 01/04/2008 Devon Posts 148 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference?  Caring local wrote: Landcat -  Out of interest, why are you posting on the forums in the early hours, do you have trouble sleeping. .. .... or Big Brother has got too intellectual this time of the morning ? .....    Report

02/07/2009, 12:22 PM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 396 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? The gridlock in the High Street continues everytime a blue badge holder parks on the opposite side of the street to the parking bays. A couple of weeks ago two such cars caused a backlog from the bottom end of High Street right up to Radway - police had to be called and they issued tickets for obstruction. No - the CEOs are not making a difference - so we may have to wait for implementation of the much awaited Traffic Management Scheme - whenever that will be.        Report

03/07/2009, 9:55 AM landcat Joined on 01/07/2009 Posts 16 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Are you implying that I am big brother? Honestly local yocal. Do you remember that in Gearge orwell's 1984, the whole of society was watched and movements constantly monitored by CCTV. Isnt that something that you and seadog are so eager to have in sidmouth? And yet through some twist of mental aerobics you suggest that I am big brother. Sea dog. What is the much awaited Traffic Management Scheme? Do we really need it? Or is it big brother muscling in on us again with yet more controlling measures?    Report

24/07/2009, 8:49 AM John R Joined on 24/07/2009 Posts 1 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? They will not make any difference as long as they keep turning a blind eye to certain individuals who persistantly offend. This is seen by other locals and visitors and quite understandably they carry on parking where they want. EG: Wed 22 July 20009 11.30 - 12.55 Church Street, Sidmouth. Visitors car overparked by 15 min recieves ticket, local trader (pretending to be unloading for 90-mins and parked on a footpath with an all times parking restiction on wall) this was seen by at least three people CEO walks past twice and does not even look at the offending car ?    Report

27/07/2009, 11:11 AM Seadog Joined on 05/03/2007 Posts 396 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? I think that trader has left his car there for more than 90 minutes at times they treat it as their own parking space  I believe that the County Council are considering changing most of the restricted time parking bays into Pay & Display in the future - it only necessitates one attendance by a CEO rather than two. I'm not sure as to whether they have the powers to 'ticket' a car parked on the pavement though - this may be still a police matter?      Report

06/09/2009, 11:01 AM Local Yocal Joined on 01/04/2008 Devon Posts 148 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? I believe it (parking on the pavement) is and they are going to sort it out soon according to a recent on-line article here.    Report

06/09/2009, 12:10 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 187 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Wasn't it nicer when we had "traffic wardens", before all this "enforcement officer" nonsense? It was just another excuse for the government to give more powers to another tier of Law Enforcement and "chip away" a little more of the freedoms that used to exist in this country. The traffic wardens used to be controlled by the police force and they provided a "service" IE keeping our road network flowing. Sadly the new "council controlled" CSO's are revenue generation creators, not service providers. Like many aspects of our lives, parking control has been "outsourced" and much more is sure to follow, with greater powers being handed out to authority's, to control our daily lives. Big brother is well and truly with us... It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

07/09/2009, 5:07 PM Purple Rinse Joined on 01/09/2009 Posts 2 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Pehaps you do not know that the previous regime of 'parking enforcement' involving police Traffic Wardens was choking the Magistrates Courts when quite a few of the drivers who were caught parking where they should not wanted their 5 minutes in court rather than pay the fine. More often than not they had no defence worth bothering about and ended up paying the fine plus court costs. The government decision to 'de-criminalise' most parking offences moved the process to a 'fines register' method - the offence was dealt with by a Penalty Charge Notice and any appeal would not take up Magistrates Court time but would be dealt with by a suitably qualified officer(s) and appeals process. The police were able to remove the Traffic Warden post and the Civil Enforcement Officer came into being and is employed by the local authority - your council. No extra powers have been given by the government - they have simply been shifted from the police to the local authority. How, pray, has this 'chipped away' at any of our freedom in this country? Or do you mean that people should have the freedom to park where they choose and ignore local directions or the fact that they obstruct the free flow of other road users? The current CEOs worked extremely hard, together with their police colleagues, to keep the traffic flowing through Sidmouth, certainly during the recent Folk Week. They continue to do this by both directing traffic and issuing PCNs - they certainly do provide a service and a good one at that. In my view, the people who generate the revenue are the drivers who get caught parking where they shouldn't or parking and not paying for a ticket or overstaying their welcome and stopping other drivers from using restricted time parking bays. The CEOs simply are part of the process of collecting this revenue when they come across obvious offences. If the offences were not committed then no revenue would be collected - eh? Parking enforcement in Sidmouth has not been outsourced - how can it be when the CEOs are employed by the local authority and not private firms? Surely any sensible person could not think that people out and about on the street who work to keep the traffic flowing and penalise those who flout the rules are akin to Big Brother.        Report

26/09/2009, 11:52 PM Ian Woolger Joined on 09/09/2008 Budleigh Salterton Posts 187 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Well "Purple Rinse" it was interesting to read your comments on my thoughts about the "CEO'S" and it would seem that along with the rest of the sheep that populate this fair nation, you have failed to look at the bigger picture, with regard to the "De policing" of our streets. If you had perhaps taken off your rose tinted specs, you will have noticed over the years, that the Police Service, has become a FORCE, wardens have become ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS and the number of "Proper Police" on the ground has reduced, as they are replaced by CEO's PCSO's and the like. Please wake up and smell the beans. It is my firm belief, that we are heading into the realms of a "two tier law enforcement" culture, where a civilian stasi, made up of CEO's , Council Wardens and contracted private security officers will become the front line on our streets, whilst the Police take a step back from serving the public and protecting the innocent, to a role in which they enforce government dictats and prosecute those who do not comply. Whilst you may think my theory does not hold water, look at today's national press, where a leading high ranking police officer is quoted as saying: Dealing with antisocial behaviour and ' low-level' hooliganism is no longer the responsibility of the police, a senior officer said yesterday. Superintendent Steve Harrod, speaking at the inquest of a mother and her disabled daughter who were hounded to their deaths by yobs, said it is now the responsibility of local councils since a law change in 1998. The officer, head of criminal justice at Leicestershire Police, said officers were allowed to hand out only reprimands and 'final warnings' to young thugs unless their offences were 'serious'. Pray tell "PR" whom but these self same CSO's and community wardens will be the ones dealing with these hoodlums and thugs? Luckily for you and I, we live in the "cotton candy, safe and happy" world, that is Devon. But sadly, the garden of Eden will not stay all "Pure and Shiny" for ever, the stinking stain that is today's feckless society, will inexorably spread to our nice corner of the country and then you may remember my words............ Oh and I forgot to add this info on the powers of CSO's taken straigh from the Horses Mouth IE The Home Office.. Their propsed powers are listed, followed by the relevant legislation: Power to issue FPNs for dog fouling Power of an authorised officer of a local authority to give a notice under section 4 of the Dogs (Fouling of Land) Act 1996. Paragraph 1(2)(c) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. Power to issue FPN for littering Power of an authorised officer of a litter authority to give a notice under section 88 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. Paragraph 1(2)(d) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to issue FPN graffiti/fly-posting Power of an authorised officer of a local authority to give a notice under section 43(1) of the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003. Paragraph 1(2)(ca) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 46 of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003) Power to remove abandoned vehicles under regulations made under section 99 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 Paragraph 10 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 TRANSPORT POWERS Power to issue FPN for cycling on pavement Power of a constable in uniform to give a person a fixed penalty notice under section 54 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 in respect of an offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 (riding on a footway) committed by cycling. Paragraph 1(2)(b) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to stop cycles: Powers of a constable in uniform to stop a cycle under section 163(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 when a CSO has reason to believe that a person has committed the offence of riding on a footpath. Paragraph 11A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by section 89(3) of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003) Power to stop vehicles for testing, power to escort abnormal loads and power to carry out road checks Paragraph 11 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. Paragraph 12 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Paragraph 13 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to require name and address for road traffic offences: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 allows CSOs to be designated with the power to require the name and address of a driver or pedestrian who fails to follow the directions of a community support officer or police officer. Paragraph 3A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 6 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to direct traffic and to place traffic signs Paragraph 11B of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 10 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill & Paragraph 13A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 11 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.) Power to issue PND for throwing fireworks and trespassing on a railway and throwing stones on a railway. S80 of the Explosives Act 1875, s55 & s56 of British Transport Commission Act 1949 Power to seize vehicles used to cause alarm: Power to stop and seize a vehicle which a CSO has reason to believe is being used in a manner which contravenes sections 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 under section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002. ALCOHOL & TOBACCO POWERS Limited power to enter licensed premises: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill allows CSOs to be designated with a power to enter licensed premises under section 180 of the Licensing Act 2003 for the purposes of investigating relevant licensing offences. Paragraph 8A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 9 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to require persons drinking in designated area to surrender alcohol Power to require a person whom a CSO reasonably believes is, or has been, consuming alcohol in a designated public place or intends to do so, to not consume that alcohol and to surrender any alcohol or container for alcohol. Power to dispose of alcohol surrendered. Paragraph 5 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to require persons aged under 18 to surrender alcohol: Power to require a person who he reasonably believes is aged under 18 or is or has been supplying alcohol to a person aged under 18 to surrender any alcohol in his possession and to give their name and address. Power to require such a person to surrender sealed containers of alcohol if the CSO has reason to believe that the person is or has been consuming or intends to consume alcohol. Power to dispose of alcohol surrendered. Paragraph 6 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to search for alcohol and tobacco: Where a person has failed to comply with a requirement under paragraph 5 or 6 or has failed to allow a CSO to seize tobacco under paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 and a CSO reasonably believes that the person is in possession of alcohol or tobacco then a CSO may search them for it and dispose of anything found. Paragraph 7A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 8 of Schedule 8 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to seize tobacco from a person aged under 16 and to dispose of that tobacco. Paragraph 7 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to seize drugs and require name and address for possession of drugs: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 allows CSOs to be designated with a power seize unconcealed drugs or drugs found when searching for alcohol, tobacco or dangerous items. The CSO must retain the drugs until a constable instructs them what to do with it. Paragraphs 7B and 7C of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 8 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to issue PNDs for: sale of alcohol to a person under 18; purchase of alcohol for person under 18; delivery of alcohol to person under 18; drinking in designated area; consumption of alcohol by person under 18 or allowing such consumption; buying or attempting to buy alcohol by a person under 18 and sells or attempts to sell alcohol to a person who is drunk. s146, s149(3),s151, s150(1) Licensing Act 2003, s149(1), s141 Licensing Act 2003 & s12 Criminal Justice & Police Act 2001 POWERS TO TACKLE ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR Power to require name and address for anti-social behaviour: Power of a constable in uniform under section 50 of the Police Reform Act 2002 to require a person whom he has reason to believe to have been acting, or to be acting, in an anti-social manner to give his name and address. Paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (Paragraph 3(10) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to deal with begging: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 makes offences under sections 3 and 4 of the Vagrancy Act 1824 into relevant offences. It also gives CSOs a power to detain a person who they have required to stop committing an offence under sections 3 and 4 of the Vagrancy Act and who has failed to comply with the requirement. Paragraphs 2(6)(ac) and 2(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (see paragraphs 3(4), 3(5), 3(6) and 3(7) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to issue PND for breach of fireworks curfew; possession of a category 4 firework; possession by a persons under 18 of an adult firework; supply of excessively load firework Fireworks Regulations 2004 under s11 of the Fireworks Act 2003 ENFORCEMENT POWERS Power to require name and address for relevant offences Power to require the name and address of a person whom a CSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence (Relevant offences are defined under subparagraph 2(6) of Schedule 4 of the Police Reform Act). Paragraph 1A of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 2 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). Power to detain: Power to detain a person whom a CSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence who fails to comply with a requirement to give name and address or who gives an answer which the CSO reasonably suspects to be false or inaccurate for up to 30 minutes or until the arrival of a police officer (or to accompany that person to a police station if he or she elects to do so on request). Paragraph 2 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. (Paragraph 3(2) of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.) Power to photograph persons away from a police station: The Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 enables CSOs to be designated with the power to photograph a person who has been arrested, detained or given a fixed penalty notice away from the police station. Paragraph 15ZA of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 (inserted by paragraph 12 of Schedule 8 to the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005). SECURITY POWERS Power to enter and search any premises for purposes of saving life and limb or preventing damage to property Paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to stop and search in authorised areas: Powers under the Terrorism Act 2000 in authorised areas to stop and search vehicles and pedestrians when in the company and under the supervision of a constable. Paragraph 15 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002 Power to enforce cordoned areas: under section 36 of the Terrorism Act 2000 And if you got this far! don't you think that is an awful lot of power for someone to have, who is not a POLICE OFFICER and definitely not a "Traffic Warden" It is criminal to steal a purse, daring to steal a fortune, a mark of greatness to steal a crown. The blame diminishes as the guilt increases    Report

01/10/2009, 5:12 PM Purple Rinse Joined on 01/09/2009 Posts 2 Re: Are the Civil Enforcement Officers making a difference? Hello Ian. First of all, please try and keep to the topic of the thread and also please avoid putting me into any category - you don't know me well enough! It really doesn't do your argument any good at all dear. I'm forced ' off topic' but Ian, the police have nearly always been referred to as a Police Force - it was only during the early nineties (was it?) that some bean counting office wallah came up with the term Police Service - although at that time the Police were beginning to be made more accountable to the public (and rightly so) the name change never did any good and I welcome any return to the term Police Force. Since the late nineties to the present day it has become obvious that most people on the street consider anti-social behaviour and other low level street crime to be high on the agenda (many public meetings have listed anti-social noise outside public houses, litter, dog fouling and parking as their main concerns) and the introduction of PCSOs was a response to this. These are dedicated neighbourhood officers that provide a visible uniformed presence on the streets and estates and, in this town, continue to do a wonderful job working with the youngsters. You really should not base your outlook on what you read in the press - certainly not 'headline press' - try learning about what goes on a bit nearer to home - have you ever thought of approaching your local police and asking to accompany a PCSO on a 'walkabout'? You will learn much more doing that than reading newspaper headlines. I think you have confused the issue by typing out your long list of PCSO powers - after all this thread is about CEOs and whether they are making a difference in Sidmouth. Albeit the latter part of your post shows the low level crime that those officers have the power to deal with - it certainly does not worry me and you really should not let it get you 'worked up' so much. Now, back 'on topic' - the CEOs continue to do an excellent job in Sidmouth and, in my opinion, are much better than the old police traffic warden grade.      Report

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